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dirnae
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PostSubject: The Modelling Thread   Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:56 am

Ok, I'm willing to do some modelling, and we've got a fair few other skilled modellers here too, so I think it's 'bout time we start up a modelling thread.

Feel free to ask questions about modelling, be it skinning, UV mapping, whatever, and you can share tips and tricks too.
I can help out a lot with 3ds max and NifSkope tweaking, and give basic help with Blender. Also feel free to post up (and show off) what you're modelling here.


Here's the list of things that need to be modelled, if you want anything adding to the list, post it up. I'll mark what's being modelled atm and by who:

Tilesets (these are a lot of work to make, so make sure you know what you're getting into if you're gonna take one):
-ColdHarbour -TheDayWalker
-Bruma like houses -Lestat
-Aldmeri Ruins -Lestat
-Oblivion style Castle Ruins -Lestat -Dirnae
-Wooden superstructures that can be attached to the castle tileset we are using (on top of the battlements and the towers). This is in order to make the castles look a more nordic than they do now.
-Ayleid/Falmer -Lestat
-Orcish -SGMonkey
-Tweaked tilesets for each of the large towns would be nice, at least for the walls, gates and castles.

Plants:
-A thistle plant.
-Two or three of the herbs from Shadowkey. Here's a List of them. Earth Moss has already been modelled by Muspila.
-Jerall Mountain Style Trees -SGMonkey (though has anyone asked zackg if he has some? I guess it isn't such a big deal either way)
-Oak trees (for oakwood)
-Some more trees might be nice for when we get towards making dragon wood, vernim wood and riverwood.

Architecture:
-A special building for the Bard College would be nice, we'll deal with it when work on Haafinger is at a later stage.

items:
-Tongues. I think I read somewhere these are also woven into amulets to hold enchantments.
-a few round shields similar to the ones used by TR (they are labeled as nordic shields).
-a plagiat of the complete nordic armor by TR.
-some nordic amulets. Preferably ones that are made of carved wood, stone or bone.
-nordic garment
-other misc items. Anything that comes to your mind.
-Some Skyrim style pots, cups, plates and bowls.
-wolf/bear skulls
-Orc clutter items
-Altmer clutter items
-Lower class rugs
-Statues of Nod gods and heros, preferably showing famous events.

Alchemy Ingrediants:
-rabbit and deer meat (probably just a retexture needed here)
-Minotaur horns, teeth and pelts -Dirnae
-deer horn and pelt -Dirnae
-Ironnut (if we haven't got one already)
-Herb ingrediants (to accompany any of the Shadowkey Herbs which have been made above)

furniture:
-Maybe a chest made of carved wood.
-wooden carvings with motifs on them.
-Nordic style beds. Roughly made and have animal skins for blankets

Creatures, these are not top priority atm, but it'd be nice to have some to show off at the BGSF:
-Minotaur -Dirnae
-Ice Wraith (the Nords hunt these for citizenship IIRC)
-Region specific deers -Dirnae
-Birds (We could use retextured resources, with alpha'd wings)
-Ogre (One's being worked on by Thissmanperson IIRC, need to check on progress)
-Werebear and Werewolf (If you want to do this, TALK TO ME FIRST! Smile They need to be setup and made in a particular way, so the player can transform into them properly. I'll get the scripts sorted out for them, so don't worry about that.)
-Sabertooth -TheDayWalker
-Mountain Lion and Snow Leopard (Westly might be giving us a snow leopard)
-Ice warrior (a.k.a. possibly the lost race of the Falmer, will look like they did in ShadowKey). -Dirnae
-Bison
-Mountain Goat

I just want to get out my thoughts on these creatures. Some of these creatures I personally believe animation knowledge is required. For example no remeshed and skinned werewolves for wereboars and bears please, if you really want to make/ have made a creature but can't animate then no problem, contact me and I'll sort it out for you (I'm more of an animator than a modeller anyway).

pirat


Last edited by dirnae on Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:41 am; edited 27 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:11 am

The best way to UV map in max is to use pelt mapping.
A tutorial on this can be found on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqY8i_-Xe0
Knowing how to pelt map is imo vital knowledge for people interested in making high quality creatures or armor in max, and useful for other things too.
The main trick with pelt mapping once you know the method is, to know where to put the seams, so they're hidden.

You might want to learn a little about the UVW Unwrap modifier first if you don't know much about it already.
I haven't watched it all the way thorugh so I'm not sure how good it is, but here's a tutorial about it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOWTaUmvsO4
I used the help files that come with max to learn it myself.

If you have any questions feel free to post them up. pirat

Also here's what I've been modelling recently:
https://2img.net/h/i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu195/mark507_album/morrowind/models/minotaur-1.png
https://2img.net/h/i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu195/mark507_album/morrowind/models/minotaur2.png

The animations are now finished and I just need to tweak the model.


Last edited by Dirnae on Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:13 pm

Wow.

That minotaur is pretty cool. Looks like a were-bull. or sort of.

It's a good thing if we offer our help to each other and also do some coordination.
Until now everything has been handled over Lestat.

There are plenty of things that I think would be good if we had them modelled. Not all of them are really urgent, however.


Plants:
-A few larger variations of the spruces used in Haafinheim Forest. The stem of those should be much longer and thicker. The branches should be rearranged somewhere farther above (those only slightly resized). Thatswhy.
-A thistle plant.
-Two or three of the herbs from Shadowkey. Here's a List of them. Earth Moss has already been modelled by me.

Architecture:
-Wooden superstructures that can be attached to the castle tileset we are using (on top of the battlements and the towers). This is in order to make the castles look a more nordic than they do now.
-An aldmeri ruin tileset. Those are left from the aldmeri occupancy in the first era and can only be found in the Reach (more of them should be in Highrock). I have some concept sketches of how those may look. I'll come up with them as soon as they are more elaborated.

items:
-a few round shields similar to the ones used by TR (they are labeled as nordic shields).
-a plagiat of the complete nordic armor by TR.
-some nordic amulets. I'm thinking of ones that are made of carved wood or stone.
-nordic garment
-other misc items. Anything that comes to your mind.

furniture:
-Maybe a chest made of carved wood.
-wooden carvings with motifs on them.


Some things already made by me:

-Bee hives
-Rock formations
-Trees
-The tileset for Haafingar and its surroundings (both interior and exterior)
-Some nordic furniture (bookshelf,tables and stools)
-Wooden shelters for outside
-Various windows
-A few container plants. Flowers: Taragetis, Dragynia, Willowbell, Moon Kanet. Weedlike plants: Witherwheat, Crowbeak. Others: Leechwurz, Earth Moss, Apple tree
-A version of Udyrfrykte without the leg in the hand.
-And other things that are minor.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:03 am

Thanks. Smile
I didn't want to make your standard Minotaur, so I went for a more beasty approach.
It's working in game now, after a few tweaks I'll send it to Lestat.
If someone would prefer a different approach on the minotaur it's easy enough to tweak the textures anyway.

I've added the models to the list now.
I've also added a creatures section, with all the creatures I know we need.

edit: Here's the common variant of the minotaur I'm making:


It'll be the same height as a high elf, so it should be able to fight in dungeons etc.

The fur you saw in the other pictures will be used for a white 'snow' minotaur which'll also have different horns.
There will be one more tough minotaur variant, I may also do variants for each hold, though I'm not sure yet.
I'll be talking to Lestat later about my ideas for the 3 main variants, common, snow and tough, and my ideas for different fighting styles for them, along with ideas for other creatures.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:05 am

As said. Great model there! I like the way you made it different from standard minotaurs.
That's gonna be a tough and very forbidding enemy.

I came to remember that I also made ironnut-trees. I just forgot to mention it yesterday.

Unfortunately, I'll have to wait til after my A-level exams before I can start making new things.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:18 am

Well, I've got A-level coursework deadlines coming up soon so I'll be pretty busy myself in a couple of weeks too. pale

Bump Mapping in Max and NifSkope

It's really easy to bump map for Morrowind using 3ds max and NifSkope.

First, make sure your materials in max are using the Niftools shader (it'll be set to Blinn by default on the drop down menu).
Then scroll down to maps, and tick the top Bump map, and add in your textures.

When you export, because you used the Niftools shader, NiTexturingProperty will be setup on the model to work in Morrowind.
You then have to attach a NiTextureEffect to the parent node of your meshes in NifSkope, and use your reflection map for it's source texture.
To use different reflection maps for different meshes, seperate the mehses into different parent nodes and attach different NiTextureEffects to them

Bump mapping only works for models not attached to the NPC skeleton.
Also Bump mapping is not veiwable in NifSkope, only in game (unless there's some Nifskope setting I don't know about).
I'll get some pictures up later to make this quick tutorial clearer if you can't understand it. Smile
I'm also not 100% sure about some of this so i'm gonna dig up an old model of mine and check how it's setup.

Bump mapping in NifSkope alone is the same except you attach the bump maps in NifSkope, which'll take a while longer.

edit: Here is a bump mapping tutorial in Russian, you'll have to translate it, though even then it's still hard to understand it if you don't know russian. Neutral
http://tesall.ru/morrowind/bumpmapping/1#introduction

I'm certain there was another in English, which would be far more useful, but I just can't find it, so I guess I'll have to improve my crappy tutorial later.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:08 pm

Hey Dirane, nice to see you again Smile (You might remember me from TR)

Here's some of my suggestions for models:

Some Skyrim style pots, cups, plates and bowls.

wolf/bear skulls

Nordic style beds. Roughly made and have animal skins for blankets

rabnit and deer meat (probabily just a retexture needed here)
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:54 am

Hi Yeti, nice to see you too! Very Happy
Nice suggestions, I'll add them to the list.

Here's how the snow minotaur is progressing:


It'll be larger than the common minotaur with special spell attacks and better loot.
Feel free to make suggestions for improvement, I'm happy with the colour scheme but the texture needs some fine tuning.
The horn texture there is a placeholder, I'll have a new texture made for it soon.

Added a new Alchemy Ingrediant Section to the list.

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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:02 am

Both minotaurs look very good in my opinion,..

I guess we should organize a chat meeting between you (Dirnae), Muspila, The Daywalker and me to avoid that some type of creature will be done twice.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:18 am

Thanks! Very Happy

I'll continue to mark up who's modelling what up here, though yeah, we should have a meeting.
I've pmed TheDayWalker, to ask if he is modelling for Skyrim atm, I'll ask him if he wants to chat with us on Skype later.

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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:49 am

Added tileset section. I'm pretty sure we need a lot more tilesets than that, and I'm not sure I got it all right, so please check it and add suggestions.

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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:17 am

I give everyone of the team permission to change the models made by me if you notice that models contributed by me still need improvement or should even be exchanged.
And I furthermore don't insist in me being the one who models the Altmer-ruins. Anyone who wishes can do it.
And I don't mind either if your output differs from the concept drawings I have made for that.

This probably sounds like shifting all the jobs over to you. It's just that, as said in our chat conference, I need to concentrate on other projects and besides that the A-level for now.

I'm really looking forward to your results, especially the realm of Molag Bal. And the astonishing range of creatures we are going to have. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:47 pm

Thanks Muspila, you've helped the project a lot. Smile

Feel free to drop by and say hello every now and again.
I'll be back with screenshots of a WIP ice warrior later. It uses the NPC skeleton and animations, though I will be making some custom ones for it too.
It also uses a seamless, smoother body based on a corprus stalker with better skinning. Hopefully it'll look pretty good when finished.

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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:40 pm

source picture:

Here's what I've got so far.


The textures and models are no where near finished, but hopefully you get the idea of how it's progressing.
The cloth and bracers need the textures editing and mesh alterations, and the leg plating (if i decide to keep it, tbh I'll probably not, I only added them to hide the long legs) needs new textures and mesh edits still. The loincloth thingy will have an alpha'd texture.
The only place that is reallydone is the body and head (but not the helmet), though now I've got the base models sorted, it should progress smoothly.

Still feel free to give suggestions. pirat

Edit: btw, some lore on these guys: they live in a place called Glacier Crawl in Hammerfall, but it's possible (and likely) they could be found elsewhere too, such as glaciers in Skyrim.

From the UESP Wiki:
Quote :
it is theorized by some that the strange race known as Ice Warriors, found in the icy caves of Glacier Crawl may be the last remnants of the lost race of Falmer. These beings are uncommunicative with outsiders, but are icy blue skinned humanoids, with features somewhat between Elven and Orcish.

I'm going to focus on make the castle ruin interiors for a while, so don't expect many creature updates yet. pirat
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:32 am

Although the head looks very good already I wonder if you may shorten the chin a bit.

I think the chin-proportions in Shadowkey are different from Morrowind.
This is, as far as I know, an elf in Shadowkey:


I'm very happy that you make this creature.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:06 am

Hell, I know I should be more online on our own forum. Fuckin' shame on me Embarassed

Here are me plans for Exterior models I will do the next 6 month:

Castle Ruin Exterior
Bruma Set Exterior
Mapping ZackG 's Ayleid ruins and modify them to falmer stuff
Aldmer Ruins

I guess also SGMonkey should do models cause he is a very good modeler and is a waste of his talent if he don't.

Maybe he is willing to do the orc tents cause i have making tents affraid
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:15 pm

Ha! I like it, you say im a good modeller and you want me to make some triangles and extrude them Razz

Seriously though, if you show me some ideas and stuff you want modelling ill get on it.

Fuck making height maps, no-one seems to give a shit so i will just keep them to myself from now one
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:47 am

Well, the tents are going to be a little more complex than that. Razz

Anyway, if Lestat hasn't given you anything to model yet, just pick something from the list.
Just model whatever you like modelling. There's simple and complex stuf to do up there, what we really need atm though is tilesets.

If you want to do interior tilesets make sure they tile together correctly. I use the max grid and symmetry modifier to help with this.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:27 pm

Yeah i do fancy modelling some tilesets Smile

Anything in particular? And if theyre from oblivion, just extract them from the bsa and send them my way and ill replicate them.

I have just spent a few minutes modelling a jerall mountain style tree
https://2img.net/h/i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm449/DDevilMonkey_666/SKYRIM/Morrowind2010-03-0504-09-53-19.jpg

Alpha needs sorting out and ive not tried making the planes into billboards. Anyone got a clue how to?

EDIT: One other thing, Lestat. Ive looked at the houses you want me to use for Falkreath, and i think they look great. My only problem with them is that in many places they are very high poly for no reason.

I was gonna say, if you still have the max files i could fix em up for you Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:54 am

Lestat's houses are okay, work on something else with your time instead.

Look a the first page for tilesets. I think all the oblivion tilesets are beiong worked on atm.
Interior tilesets also need to be made for the houses too I think (and I don't mean interiors shell meshes either, proper tilesets which we can slot together).
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:30 pm

I know what a tile(set) is Razz

And im just saying, it would be nice to refine the nord houses a little, they look great, but they cool look just as good with half the poly's
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:32 am

Yeah, sorry. pirat

It was more of a jab at the loghouse interiors which are just shells, rather then a reminder of what a tileset is (though I'm thinking we'd just need something like a couple of wall statics for those and some windows to finish it off).

About the nord houses, cutting down the polycount wont have an affect on framerate, because they're not that high poly.
Why not use your time making something more useful now?
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:37 am

I am modelling stuff now. And the poly count does have an effect.more in the CS than anything. Im not saying its hugely important, i just think that at some point it will need doing Smile

Come on skype too, i have a favour to ask Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:44 am

Have you seen Hedgehog's armors?
Also have you seen TheDayWalker's Meshes?
And have you ever used Morrowind2007/2009, or better meshes?

They all are obscenely high poly (just the pauldron from Hedgehog's armor is way higher poly than those houses).
And yet they have no effect on framerate for me and many people with ancient computers.
TDW uses the CS a lot with his meshes too with no ill effects AFAIK. Look at his new Ald-ruhn WIP for examples.

What drags down framerate is mainly object count, which is the main thing we need to look out for.
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PostSubject: Re: The Modelling Thread   Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:30 am

dirnae wrote:
Have you seen Hedgehog's armors?
Also have you seen TheDayWalker's Meshes?
And have you ever used Morrowind2007/2009, or better meshes?

They all are obscenely high poly (just the pauldron from Hedgehog's armor is way higher poly than those houses).
And yet they have no effect on framerate for me and many people with ancient computers.
TDW uses the CS a lot with his meshes too with no ill effects AFAIK. Look at his new Ald-ruhn WIP for examples.

What drags down framerate is mainly object count, which is the main thing we need to look out for.

I agree, the polycount is not much important nowadays...esspecailly InGame. Only the CS needs longer to load the cells with high poly objects, but that's all.

Btw., the good old vanilla meshes are VERY High Poly on some opjects...loads of doubled or tripled peaks...I melted the peaks (vertex) on some objects and reduced the number from 538 to 142 Vertex.

Object Count doesn't really matter without using MGE and distant land. If we use MGE (I do) with a hugh view distance, MGE have to render a giant number of objects which is decreasing the framerate till you have a slide show. I've made the experiance that Skyrim has the best performance with a view distance between 5-8 cells...also I'm not a fan of unlimited view distance cause it ruins the feeling of Morrowind a little bit.
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